Summer cleaning

So, what I’ve done is merged the old ZC and BS Lists into a single Backlash Herders page, which now lists only Jews:

http://aryanism.net/blog/information/backlash-herders/

As previously discussed, the non-Jews have become far too numerous to keep up with. Which in itself is the clearest sign we have of how big the backlash has become. We need your help to stop it. If you want to help us, please send in a contact form:

http://aryanism.net/about/contact/

Because the Backlash Herders page was made by transplanting the BS Jews over into the old ZC List, this means that the comments section of the page is that of the old ZC List. However, I noted that there were some valuable discussions in the comments section of the old (now removed) BS List, so I have decided to repost select edited comment excerpts in this post. Hopefully newcomers and regulars alike can benefit from revisiting these old discussions and perhaps even further elaborating on the arguments involved; I have put in bold my personal favourite parts. Please also take this opportunity to discuss anti-backlash argumentation tactics in general. If you have encountered enemy arguments that you have trouble dealing with, please feel welcome to post them below in case someone else might be able to suggest good counterarguments to them.

AS vs “Red Pill” junkie:

“You claim that tribalism, which is natural, is exactly what the Jews want us to practice. Well, why do they preach communism across the globe?”

Because communism is the tribalism of proles. By the way, they have not preached communism for several decades. The more recent involvement of Jews is with far-right politics.

“Why do they condemn all forms of Tribalism other than their own?”

They do not. They promote it. One way by which they promote it is to make it non-PC, so that useful idiots like yourself then think you are rebelling when you are actually following the Zionist script.

But it is universalist ideologies which Jews have truly opposed throughout history, because only universalist ideologies expose the inferiority of Judaism (a tribalist religion) and hence of Jews themselves in comparison. Gentile tribalist ideologies, on the other hand, normalize Judaism and hence remove the motivation to destroy it.

“Whites pose the greatest threat to World Jewry.”

LOL! In an alternate world history where “whites” never existed, would Jews be more powerful or less powerful than they are today?

“It seems that YOU are helping the Zionist cause by preaching anti-tribalism”

Remember to tell that to Jesus also. Only universalists are able to despise tribalists with the intensity required to not rest until they have been wiped out. That is what we need to destroy Zionism, not more tribes in addition to Jews (which just spreads the disease)!

“The second I read that you are anti-tribalism (not allowing human beings to group naturally with others like them)”

I am currently grouping with people like myself (other universalists); the hint is in our motto: UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY. That is folkism, not tribalism. Do you see the difference? Two tribalists from different tribes may share a belief in tribalism, but this shared belief does not unite them, instead it sets them against each other. Two universalists, in contrast, are united by their shared belief in universalism.

“You say race doesn’t matter”

We say race matters. “Whiteness” is what doesn’t matter.

“and that as long as “Aryans” carry “the torch” it doesn’t matter what “team” they are from?”

And that is what we mean by race.

“Well then why do you exclude Jews?”

Because they are tribalists.

“Is it because of their racial makeup or soul?”

Both. Any group which lives among another larger group for multiple generations (as Jews have done for several thousand years) and still exists as a distinct identity has surely selected for genetic tendencies towards tribalism within its own members (since any non-tribalists among them would have integrated, so each new unintegrated generation will be more tribalistic than the generation before). Therefore even an individual Jew today who claims to be universalist should not be trusted, unless he voluntarily refuses to reproduce (as Jesus did).

“Then I could argue Blacks and other races who have lower IQs and more of a genetic propensity for violence etc., couldn’t be Aryans either.”

If “blacks” had a consistent historical record of refusing integration, then we would treat them no differently than Jews. (Indeed this is why National Socialism is hostile to Gypsies.) But that’s not the case for “blacks” at all. Wherever welcomed, “blacks” have always enthusiastically integrated. WNs implicitly admit this every time they complain about “black” men having sex with “white” women! (Portugal, for example, once had a “black” community which has since been fully absorbed into the population.) Wherever “blacks” remain unintegrated, it is invariably because others took measures to keep them segregated. In the US, for example, it was “white”, not “black”, Americans who passed Jim Crow laws. Indeed the very fact that “blackness” is defined as possessing any quantity of “black” ancestry shows clearly that the concept of “blackness” is fundamentally integrationist. The same cannot be said for “whiteness”, which is defined not by possession of “white” ancestry but by non-possession of “non-white” ancestry (a.k.a. the One Drop Rule).

If IQ were the qualification for being Aryan, Jews would be the most Aryan of all.

As for genetic propensity for violence, you have to be fucking kidding me. In world history, the “black” civilizations have been BY FAR the least aggressive. Alexander was not “black”. Genghis Khan was not “black”. Not a single one of the colonial empires were “black”. “Blacks” did not introduce WMDs to the world, nor banking with all its economic consequences, nor industrialization with all its environmental consequences, nor democracy with all its sociopolitical consequences, and the list could go on for hours if I wanted (dont even get me started about the indescribable quantity of violence involving trillions of victims in meat/egg/dairy factories, again not introduced by “blacks”). “Blacks” certainly did not help to create Israel! In fact, NONE of the enormous problems in the world that we have to deal with today were created by “blacks”, NOT ONE. This is why I get angry whenever people trash “blacks”, one of the ethnicities LEAST responsible for the mess we’re currently in. I don’t care about ethnicity myself, but when others start talking about ethnicity first, I will always remind them which ethnicity is MOST responsible for the mess we’re currently in. (Hint: not “blacks”.)

“which race produced the most Aryans and the most advanced civilizations? It was the Caucasian race; mostly “White people” I would say.”

If that were the case, we should at least expect that Aryan movements in Europe would have been less persecuted than Aryan movements in other parts of the world. This is not the case. Look what happened to the Pythagoreans, the Cathars/Bogomils, and National Socialist Germany. You simply don’t know what you are talking about (despite supposedly spending hours reading the site).

“Jews use homosexuality to destroy morality and the family unit of Goy nations, which is my main reason I stand against it from being accepted and taught to our children as “normal”.”

Jews were the ones who introduced homophobia thousands of years ago! Read the Tanakh! Before Judaism, nobody cared! That’s what we need to get back to. The fact that you are homophobic shows you have bought into the Judaic worldview, and are thus unqualified to be a serious anti-Zionist. Serious anti-Zionism entails rejecting everything Judaic, including homophobia.

“denying nature”

If there is one thing we DO NOT do, it’s deny nature. If we denied nature, we would be talking about using education to improve everyone. We don’t. We talk about breeding first and education second.

“One can race-mix if they choose to, but others can refuse to do it and protect their children from doing so.”

In other words the children don’t get to choose. You’re not fooling anyone with your wordplay.

“I ask what is wrong with a White Nationalist who simply wants a future for White children in their own ethno state; wishing no harm on anyone else?”

I ask what is wrong with Israel.

“For you to deny these types of Whites, or any people, who are compassionate towards others and only want to be safe in their own homelands would make you a supremacist, by claiming they have no right to their own form of sovereignty and that they must live according to your anti-tribal standards.”

Jews tell me the same thing when I criticize Israel. I don’t take them seriously either.

“Hell, you even have a list of religions you want to destroy – how are you compassionate Aryans again?”

Compassion is not tolerance. Only those who lack compassion will tolerate cruelty.

“Jews want the whole world to be multicultural cesspool except for Israhell. You seem to want the same thing.”

No, we want to destroy Israel.

We are also against multiculturalism. We want to create a new culture. We merely allow individuals of all ethnic backgrounds to participate in this project.

Besides, who says Jews want the whole world multicultural??? I think they want non-Jewish ethnostates to form so that Israel won’t be the only ethnostate in the world and therefore will become harder to criticize. That’s why they are using multiculturalism to engineer a backlash against multiethnic society. We want to show that multiethnic society can work so long as it is not multicultural.

“But do you realize that multiculturalism is the PRECURSOR to all conflict?”

Make sure you tell that to the Incans. There they were with an entire ocean separating them from Spain, so no multiculturalism there! But then all of a sudden your favourite ethnicity came along and massacred them. TRIBALISM is the precursor to conflict.

“How can you have “racism” in a nation that has ONE race?”

Ask the people who massacred the Incans. As long as Spain was multiethnic (Andalus), the Incans were safe. The moment Spain became monoethnic again, the Incans were in trouble.

While you’re at it, ask any of the other colonial empires. Each one started as a monoethnic nation. Precisely because of this, each developed a tribal identity around their ethnicity, and colonialism was the result. You’re not even aware of this, and you call yourself a realist?

“How can you have religious conflict in a nation that is ONE religion?”

Again, ask the people who massacred the Incans.

“Wouldn’t it make more sense to solve both issues by allowing people to live among their own?”

And the next thing you know, they are massacring the Incans. That’s why Spain should have stayed Andalus.

“THAT is a permanent solution to these issues; tribalism/nationalism SOLVES them permanently.”

Tell that to the Incans.

“2.) Multiculturalism doesn’t work, and never will work, and is the precursor to all conflict. 3.) You cannot alter the immutable laws of nature because of your feelings; conflict is part of the natural order and is here to stay.”

Which is it? If conflict is part of the natural order, then it would not be ended by removing multiculturalism. But of course you don’t notice your self-contradiction because you didn’t think of any of these ideas yourself, you just read them at far-right blogs.

“each race/people/religion, should have their own homeland with borders and their own way of life.”

That was what we had hundreds of years ago. Ask the Incans what happened next.

“But it seems, after reading your site, you would not allow Tribalists to exist in their own lands because you claim that they would eventually be a threat”

Ask the Incans if you don’t believe me. Or the Palestinians.

“yet you fail to see that your multiethnic/racial/religious states are states that will produce conflict anyway, and ARE A THREAT THEMSELVES.”

A threat to Jews, and to people like yourself (Gentiles). That’s the point. What kind of anti-Zionists would we be if we do not intend to be a threat to Zionism? Again, do you bother to think before writing?

“Why do you preach against those tribalists/nationalists, who wish to form an ethnostate away from your kind?”

What do you want me to do, say Israel has a ‘right’ to exist?

“Jews, with their tribalism, have survived for thousands of years while other nations collapsed BECAUSE of race-mixing and multiculturalism.”

Jews have wreaked havoc around the world for thousands of years because of their tribalism, and now we have a chance to finish them off. You want to ruin this chance.

“you are actually supremacists that will not allow others to live how they wish”

Jews tell me the same thing when I criticize Israel. I don’t take them seriously either.

“You say are against oppression, yet you have no qualms destroying those who you disagree with.”

I am against oppression, therefore I certainly have no qualms destroying oppressors.

“You say Aryans are people who have freedom and refuse slavery, so then you are destroyers if you wish to destroy all people who want their own type of freedom; like living in their own lands secluded from others…”

Jews tell me the same thing when I criticize Israel. I don’t take them seriously either.

“Would you wish to destroy the Amish for doing just that?”

I would destroy the Amish just for their tradition of torturing children (following the methods prescribed in the Tanakh) alone.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amish_way_of_life#Child_discipline

“Also, I am not homophobic because I’m not afraid of gays or whatever, but I don’t think their lifestyle is healthy nor would I hope my children are gay so my lineage dies off.”

In other words, you view your children as Goys for the function of continuing your lineage. That is a selfish and exploitative attitude, which I have come to expect from people like yourself.

“Every species/organism on earth wants to ensure its bloodline continues and genes are passed on”

I point you to the giant pandas that are currently being raped by machines as we speak because they themselves have no interest in continuing their bloodlines but humans are forcing them to reproduce so that humans can derive pleasure from watching them in zoos.

“No parents are hoping their children are gay.”

It’s none of the parents’ business in the first place.

“I have a handful of gay friends and we get along because they aren’t running around forcing homosexual propaganda down my throat. Those who did, actually stopped being my friend because they could not accept that I didn’t agree with their lifestyle.”

I am willing to bet that they did not attempt to argue that “heterosexuality” is wrong. You, however, are arguing that “homosexuality” is wrong. Who is forcing stuff down whose throat?

“Do you believe a Christian bakery should be forced to bake a cake for a gay couple if it violates their beliefs?”

I believe it is deceptive for such a bakery to call itself “Christian”, since Jesus was not homophobic. They should not be forced to bake a cake for anyone, but if they refuse to bake a cake for a gay couple because the couple is gay, they should be required to describe their bakery as “Judaic” in all correspondence henceforth, and to put a Star of David on their door.

“you do realize that the Jews use the LGBT community to cause drama, so we agree with that point.”

The point is that it would be mechanically impossible for Jews to use the LGBT community to cause drama if homophobia were rejected. Therefore it is people like yourself who make it possible for Jewish tactics to so easily succeed.

“none of us have a problem with Japan.”

Japan is not an ethnostate. It does not legally restrict interethnic marriage. On the contrary, anyone who has one Japanese parent is automatically Japanese, irrespective of the ethnic background of the other parent (try to persuade your WN friends to adopt this policy and see how far you get), and even people with no Japanese ancestry can, and have, become Japanese. On the other hand, people with even 100% Japanese ancestry who have lived abroad are not necessarily welcome to return to Japan (notable example being Brazilians of Japanese descent), further demonstrating that ethnicity is not the priority.

“To give you some background I have only been aware of the “jewish problem” for about 2 years now”

Then I guess you weren’t around back in 2007-2009 when the first-generation post-9/11 anti-Zionist activists had established a solid non-racist anti-Zionist movement (culminating in the OWNP), and then crypto-Jews inundated us with WNs who contaminated our work by stealing our research but inverting our message from the need to end tribalism (Jews being tribalists and therefore the enemy of the world) to the need for “white” tribalism to RIVAL Jewish tribalism. I was around back then, which is why I know first-hand that WN is absolute poison to serious anti-Zionism. You are looking at the scene after Zionist agents have already come in and gone back out, having altered its essence.

This was our song:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foTWkiIwg10

We might have won by now if not for WN.

“I stated I have compassion for all people and are willing to help them all, but I can’t do that if my people are destroyed now can I?”

On the contrary, it is realistically likely to come down to nuclear war if we are to destroy Israel (look up the Samson Option). Only those who are willing to risk destroying ‘their own’ people in order to simultaneously destroy Israel have any hope of destroying Israel.

“I do want to protect my people from genocide.”

Jews tell me the same thing. I don’t take them seriously either.

“I don’t’ agree with flooding Whiten nations with Islam and non-Whites etc. I don’t’ agree with affirmative action and racial quotas…Do you?”

I believe everyone should be allowed to live where they want, since none of us choose where we were born. I oppose the Mexica Movement that wants “white” Americans to be expelled from America, just as I oppose Golden Dawn that wants “non-white” Europeans to be expelled from Europe.

I am against quotas.

I am also against BobWhitakerisms such as “flooding” to describe entirely voluntary migration by individuals and “genocide” to describe entirely voluntary interethnic marriage by individuals. (I bet it was Bob Whitaker who taught you to throw Japan at me also.) You call me condescending, but I assure you there is nothing more condescending than using BobWhitakerisms in a serious discussion.

“And yes, the West colonized and do bad things, sure…But I was not there for that nor would I condone such things today.”

Which is why, if you are a “white” American, I would fight for you to be allowed to continue living in America if you wish to do so. I only despise you because you would not in return fight for “non-white” Europeans to continue living in Europe if they wish to do so.

“I do not agree with genocide; especially “white genocide” which is of my own people…”

I do not agree with using BobWhitakerisms in a serious discussion.

“Blacks are responsible for 92% of the interracial crime on whites. They rape white women at the rate of 30k per year with under 10 white men raping black women per year….the knock out game etc…”

Arrest and execute the criminals. What else do you expect me to say? Let innocent people take the blame? By the way, I don’t take FBI information at face value, since according to the FBI, al-Qaeda did 9/11.

“Are you telling me you will feel less safe in a White or Asian town than a Black town?”

Nobody is safe in a world with weapons that allow combat with no risk to the attacker, such as nukes, chemical/biological weapons, drones, sniper satellites and other remote-controlled devices, or even conventional explosives delivered by bomber aircraft or ballistic missiles (don’t get me started about chemtrails). Nobody is safe in a world filled with radioactive waste and smog and fluoridated water and toxic soil/building materials and oil spills that can’t be cleaned up and nuclear meltdowns that can’t be cleaned up. Nobody is safe in a world where people are shot up with vaccines since childhood. In fact, nobody is safe in a world where food is not grown locally. I suppose you want to tell me that all this is the fault of “blacks”.

Feeling safe has little to do with being safe. The Incans were probably feeling safe until your favourite ethnicity arrived and massacred them.

“Lets not forget the Irish slaves.”

I get along with many Irish nationalists because they refuse to self-identify as “white”, but instead stand in solidarity with fellow victims of the British Empire. I also like their welcoming attitude towards immigrants to Ireland, which they base on the reasoning that they should treat immigrants to Ireland as they would wish other countries treat Irish immigrants. This is the kind of attitude we desperately need more of these days. This is real nationalism.

“Blacks and Mexicans commit MOST of the crime in the US and they are a minority.”

According to feminists, men commit most of the crime, therefore let’s blame men as a whole! This is what you sound like to me. And I still don’t take FBI information at face value.

“But how many White towns do you know that are full of crime to the point people aren’t safe to walk the streets?”

Castile was so dangerous that even people on the other side of the ocean were not safe to walk the streets. Ask the Incans about it.

“So why is it wrong for someone who wants to live in an all-White town/state/country where they know crime would be less; the streets safer/ the women safer/ the children safer???”

Jews ask me the same thing with reference to Israel. I don’t take them seriously either.

“Children of multiracial parents look nothing like them”

If JJ weren’t so busy he’d eat you alive on this point.

“The fact you promote Hitler all over this site you should realize he was against race-mixing and would only encourage to breed the best with the best”

That’s what we encourage. For example, I would not allow you to reproduce with any of our team members.

“had the Spanish not been among the Inca, they would have not been able to destroy them…which is my point.”

But in reality they did go there, which is my point. If ethnoseparatism worked, the monoethnic Spanish would have stayed in Spain. They didn’t. So you are wrong.

(By the way, the Incans themselves were not monoethnic, they were a multiethnic society including more than 200 formerly separate groups. So we have one multiethnic society (Andalus) and another multiethnic society (Inca Empire) living in peace on two sides of the ocean. Suddenly, one society becomes monoethnic (Spain) and then the next thing you know the other is wiped out despite the ocean separating them. Yet, according to you, multiethnic society is the problem?)

“If Israel minded her own business, I wouldn’t care if she wanted to exist; not being a parasite or destroying other nations. In fact, if every Jew went to Israel and cut themselves off from the rest of the planet, the Jewish question would be solved.”

That’s what they want you to think. The next thing you know, Jews will have built such a large technological edge over everyone else that they can conquer the world by pressing a button. That’s what they are working on in Israel right now. Every day we let Israel continue to exist, they move closer to this endgame.

“You do believe in sovereignty I hope.”

I believe in sovereignty in the original autocratic sense ie. the monarch is sovereign. I am nostalgic for the ancient world when simply knowing that an immigrant population has been welcomed as new citizens by the monarch is the only reason the rest of the citizenry needed to welcome them also. Whereas these days it’s all “We want a referendum!” and other democratic garbage.

Trivia:

Interesting trivia:

“Cow’s flesh, however, none of these [Libyan] tribes ever taste, but abstain from it for the same reason as the Egyptians, neither do they any of them breed swine. Even at Cyrene, the women think it wrong to eat the flesh of the cow, honoring in this Isis, the Egyptian goddess, whom they worship both with fasts and festivals. The Barcaean women abstain, not from cow’s flesh only, but also from the flesh of swine.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_mythology#Egyptian_deities

Humour from AW:

I like that we’ve managed to mention both types of Isis in this conversation.

Christianity from Hashtali:

the word “enemy” is a mistranslation of the original Greek “echthros” (plural: “echthroi”). “Ecthros” is actually somebody who hates you … Thus Jesus was saying love those who hate you, try to mend discord, try to help them. But he was not saying love those whom you hate

JJ vs another “Red Pill” junkie:

“Funny thing is you’re marching in lockstep with George Soros, Peter Sutherland and company who fully back the mass transposition of refugees and migrants to Europe.”

Zionists like Soros, etc. have caused conflict in the Middle East and support having the refugees come to Europe because they know that reactionaries like yourself will promote identitarianism to FURTHER DIVIDE non-Jews.

We on the other hand realize what the Zionists are trying to do and are attempting to PREVENT non-Jews from being further divided along ethnic lines. That’s what UNITY THROUGH NOBILITY means. Anyone who can’t see that inter-ethnic conflict between non-Jews only benefits Jews is not qualified to call themselves an anti-Zionist. (And anyone who immediately reacts to a crisis by turning to selfish identitarianism instead of selflessly extending a helping hand to fellow victims of Zionist violence is not qualified to say they have empathy either…)

You claim Jews are trying to elicit ‘extreme’ empathy in Europeans. Instead there has been a massive surge in the far right and widespread acceptance of racist attitudes. Do you really think Jews are dumb enough to “accidentally” mess up on such a grand scale? You are falling for their reverse-bluff.

“Western culture is not some monolithic thing. There are many variants to “Western” culture, all of which should be preserved in its unique forms.”

Should we preserve Jewish culture and the Jewish race simply because they exist (not to mention _their_ contributions to “Western” culture and all it’s derivatives)??? If not, why should Western cultures be preserved simply for existing?

We are idealists, we wish to remove ignoble elements from all cultures–fundamentally changing them. We do not wish to “preserve” anything.

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2 Responses to Summer cleaning

  1. John Johnson says:

    Do you still have a list of the non-Jew ZCs/BSs saved somewhere?

    As I mentioned before, even if there are too many Gentiles to keep track of, our lists were still light years ahead of other lists compiled by anti-racists, and therefore it is a public service to at least have that info available somewhere.

  2. AS says:

    @JJ

    “Do you still have a list of the non-Jew ZCs/BSs saved somewhere?”

    If you go to the ‘Edit’ option under each relevant page, you can access previously saved versions. Versions from before July 2017 would include the non-Jews.

    “even if there are too many Gentiles to keep track of”

    Most of the new racists today aren’t even Gentiles, but raceless people who are turning to racism just because they see it becoming popular and fashionable. They often introduce themselves as “former anti-racists”, “recovering anti-racists”, etc., whereas new Gentile racists introduce themselves with lines like “I had always been disgusted seeing black men with white women but just didn’t know why” etc..

    In a past private discussion, I proposed that a possible litmus test to distinguish a Gentile racist from a raceless racist is whether or not the visceral disgust towards interethnic couples exists in them. If it does, they are not worth the effort of persuasion. Even if you give a fantastic speech and temporarily tune them in to anti-racism, the effect only lasts until they catch a glimpse of the next interethnic couple on the street or on TV, which instantly takes over their entire brain and plugs it back in to racism. Gentiles are THAT PRIMITIVE.

    The raceless, on the other hand, I believe can be persuaded to an extent. We just have to show that we can consistently smash racists in debate. In other words, if we – and I mean all of us – are not debating as dominatingly as we can be, then it is OUR FAULT that the backlash continues to grow among the raceless.

    By the way, earlier this month I received a mailing list email from JAM where he and his guys were discussing a related topic. Here is an excerpt:

    I’ve theorized before that there is no legitimate anti-Jewish sentiment among White Nationalists—that it’s just all a charade, even at at the lowest levels.

    White Nationalist, Michael Delaney had a strong friendship with the Jew “Quest” (Evren Hun Welshons, mother’s maiden name Kaplan) even after I repeatedly warned him that Quest was a Jew. Popular “Alternative Right” reporter, Lauren Southern, is a half-Jew. Trump is in bed with the Jews. White Nationalists will kill anybody, except Jews. So long as the Jew allows whites to be the head house nigger of all the gentiles, then they don’t really mind that the Jew has so much power. Notice that the whites are getting really loud and frustrated now that it looks like they won’t be the head house nigger anymore. That’s why they look the other way when it comes to Trump’s Jewish connections.

    The whites celebrate their benefits and say, “At least he’s restoring our house nigger status.”

    This is why I’ve said before that whites will never defeat Jewish Supremacy. … it’s privileges come from the Jew—and since they don’t want to let go of all those privileges—they won’t ever destroy Jewish Supremacy. Whites might lose their house nigger status if they did that. Perhaps Blacks, Chinese, East Indians or some other “non-whites” would eventually become the dominant superpower in the world, and “whites” can’t allow that to happen. It’s better for “whites” to let the Jews help them oppress other peoples, so long as the whites aren’t being as oppressed as the non-whites.

    This is not too different from what we have been saying.

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