Thank you Joan for bringing this up in the comments. You correctly pointed out that Cox was not a True Leftist, but who knows, she might have got here one day? She did appear to be headed in this direction:
Cox was a parliamentary supporter of the Labour Friends of Palestine & the Middle East,[24] and called for the lifting of the blockade of the Gaza Strip.[25] She had opposed efforts by the government to curtail the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jo_Cox
If nothing else, Cox deserves to be remembered for her pro-refugee advocacy, for which we thank her efforts and hope her message becomes as widely heard and heeded as possible, albeit via publicity generated at the cost of her life.
I believe there are many more well-meaning people like Cox who have the potential to get it on a variety of issues when they are willing to simply listen to their hearts and apply empathy to innocent victims, but who have not yet shaken off their Western education and therefore cannot see how democracy is the facilitator of evil, and certainly not the solution to it (as should be increasingly evident not least from observing the growing democratic success of the far-right year by year, to say nothing of the exemplary democracy of Israel). Some False Leftists claim to agree that Western civilization is bad, but then contend that the way to solve this is through more democracy (which is like trying to douse a fire using bigger and bigger buckets of petrol), blind to the inherent self-contradiction of trying to use Western civilization to solve problems created by Western civilization.
Yes, refugees should be welcomed wherever they choose to resettle, but not because it is democratic to welcome them. It is not. To be democratic is to listen to the majority of existing voters, and poll after poll has shown that the majority of existing voters have no empathy for refugees. To welcome refugees is to be openly and unapologetically anti-democratic, and it is about time that pro-refugee activists admit this and feel MORE proud of our pro-refugee activism in the knowledge that we are the superior minority, the true aristocracy, we who treat others not as the majority demand they be treated, but as we ourselves would wish to be treated.
@AS:
The problem for WN men is that they are not sexually attracted to “non-white” women, therefore they have to live with the disadvantage of an increased number of sexual competitors…
I would disagree here. We just need take one look at the ‘misadventures’ of the likes of Andrew Anglin into the ‘Asian’ dating scene to realize that Anglin obviously cannot entirely believe half the nonsense he professes. From my time spent in the cesspool of “white nationalism” I can vouch that there are many WN’s who are attracted to women of ‘color’, yet must deny themselves out of fear. I think V.K. Clark has done an excellent job documenting the hypocrisy of so many WN’s on the internet in regards to the topic at hand.
One could also argue that much of the misogyny in WN circles is also fear based.
I believe that because most “white nationalists” groups are filled with weak spirited individuals that are fearful of being dominated by ‘others’, thus they have drawn the conclusion that their only hope to prevent this is to dominate the ‘other’ first. Being that most of these WN groups are patriarchal (even believing Hitler to be a great patriarch) their need to dominate those that could theoretically dominate them feeds into sexism and misogyny. It is the female reproductive organ itself that they fear, as it holds power over them.
I suppose this is where both of our thoughts do converge. My only true point would be to argue that fear is the root of WN thought and beliefs, and it is the motivating factor behind every action that they take.
lol. Andrew Anglin loves those Sinosphere types.
>(Looking at it this way moreover explains the high correlation between racism and homophobia: by the same reasoning, men who aren’t attracted to men are disadvantaged by having to compete against women for other women, and vice versa for women.)
That only explains why racist men tend to be against lesbians, though. They actually tend to more strongly against male homosexuals than against lesbians, even though this would decrease the amount of sexual competitors.
@NS
“We just need take one look at the ‘misadventures’ of the likes of Andrew Anglin into the ‘Asian’ dating scene to realize that Anglin obviously cannot entirely believe half the nonsense he professes.”
Yes, which is why plenty of people believe Anglin is an agent.
“I can vouch that there are many WN’s who are attracted to women of ‘color’”
These usually complain that “white” women have “lost their femininity” (ie. have more qualifications and/or earn more money than themselves), but argue that as soon as “white” women “regain their femininity” (ie. become unqualified and economically dependent on men again), they would instantly be more attractive than “non-white” women. I suspect this is primarily anti-feminist propaganda targeting “white” women.
“I believe that because most “white nationalists” groups are filled with weak spirited individuals that are fearful of being dominated by ‘others’, thus they have drawn the conclusion that their only hope to prevent this is to dominate the ‘other’ first.”
I certainly agree with this part.
“It is the female reproductive organ itself that they fear”
Wait a minute… isn’t this what WE fear? (As Gnostics, we also fear the male reproductive organ, of course.)
How about female WNs, according to your theory?
@AW
“That only explains why racist men tend to be against lesbians, though. They actually tend to more strongly against male homosexuals than against lesbians, even though this would decrease the amount of sexual competitors.”
The impression I get is that they believe the “low-testosterone pansy fags” would not offer much competition against “high-testosterone virile alphas” like themselves for women in the first place, hence the advantage to themselves gained by these “low-testosterone pansy fags” being gay rather than straight is negligible according to their estimates, and therefore fails to offset their other fear of gay men having sex with their sons (which in itself is part of the same sexual calculation, since whatever time their sons spend having gay sex is subtracted from the time their sons could be spending having straight (and hence potentially reproductive) sex). The gay-bashing comes mostly from fathers, whereas the lesbian-bashing comes mostly from young single males, as far as I can tell.
@AS
“The gay-bashing comes mostly from fathers, whereas the lesbian-bashing comes mostly from young single males, as far as I can tell.”
I’ve seen gay-bashing come from young single males, and I’ve never had the impression that their proportion of it was negligible in comparison to that of actual fathers. Perhaps a more long-term strategy is involved here: Straight “white” males will have immediate reproductive advantage over gays in general, but so will “non-white” males. The more gay “white” males there are, the fewer “white” children are born over time, and the higher the number of “non-whites” in society - so more competition (from “non-white” males) and less potential mates (due to more “non-white” females) for their sons. The same logic applies if we flip the genders of any character above, which accounts for equal bashing of both gays and lesbians among the far-right. More importantly, it explains the ties between the far-right and homophobia rather than just homophobia in general (which your explanation with the father does well).
@Hashtali
“I’ve seen gay-bashing come from young single males, and I’ve never had the impression that their proportion of it was negligible in comparison to that of actual fathers.”
It is always possible that we are taking different samples, but the impression I always got is that young single males will call other young single males (irrespective of their actual sexual preferences) “gay”, “fag”, etc. as insults, so they clearly have a low opinion of male homosexuality, but they do this mainly to elevate their own masculinity in comparison with those whom they are insulting, and their tone is disdain more than outright hostility. On the other hand, the gay-bashing coming from fathers often involves graphic threats of what they would do to gay men, and just feels a lot more vicious overall.
“The more gay “white” males there are, the fewer “white” children are born over time”
So are you saying that WNs believe that there are proportionately more gay “white” males than gay “non-white” males in society? Because by the same logic the more gay “non-white” males there are, the fewer “non-white” children are born over time.
“it explains the ties between the far-right and homophobia rather than just homophobia in general (which your explanation with the father does well).”
There is a well-known general correlation between fatherhood and right-leaning political views, which in conjunction with the correlation between fatherhood and homophobia that I proposed would produce a net correlation between the far-right and homophobia.
“It is always possible that we are taking different samples, but the impression I always got is that young single males will call other young single males (irrespective of their actual sexual preferences) “gay”, “fag”, etc. as insults, so they clearly have a low opinion of male homosexuality, but they do this mainly to elevate their own masculinity in comparison with those whom they are insulting, and their tone is disdain more than outright hostility. On the other hand, the gay-bashing coming from fathers often involves graphic threats of what they would do to gay men, and just feels a lot more vicious overall.”
I agree overall, but I think this is primarily a matter of different immediate priorities between fathers and young single males in general rather than the two being exclusively concerned about homosexual males or females respectively. A father who only has daughters will be concerned about them becoming lesbians for the same reasons you described above for the sons.
As for fathers’ homophobia being more viscious, I’m not entirely sure, but you’re probably right. This probably has to do with the directness of the threat. If all offspring are homosexual, then that’s that: they probably won’t reproduce. If, in the case of WNs, some random other “white” person is homosexual, then that’s a shame, but there are still plenty of random other “white” non-homosexuals whose offspring could pair with one’s own.
“So are you saying that WNs believe that there are proportionately more gay “white” males than gay “non-white” males in society? Because by the same logic the more gay “non-white” males there are, the fewer “non-white” children are born over time.”
Yes. A lot of them seem to believe The ZOG and Cultural Marxists (and feminists and co.) have conspired to feminize The Virile White Man, with one tactic being The Homosexual Agenda. Of course, the goal is White Genocide because The White Man will no longer be able to compete against the straight, virile, “non-white” men. Homosexual “non-whites” are generally seen as outliers, and WNs don’t seem to mind them, probably for the reason you described above.
In any case, I think they would prefer to have no “white” homosexuals rather than just have them achieve a balance with “non-white” homosexuals.
It’s interesting to see where WN homophobia will go. I remember seeing a discussion on some WN forum a few years ago concerning some “non-white” homophobic Muslims in Sweden who threatened “white”, homosexual Swedes. WNs who were otherwise homophobic were complaining about “non-white” Muslims telling “white” non-Muslims what to do, even if they agreed with the former’s actions in principle. (It’s possible I’ve mentioned this incident before, but I’m still surprised by that discussion.)
“There is a well-known general correlation between fatherhood and right-leaning political views, which in conjunction with the correlation between fatherhood and homophobia that I proposed would produce a net correlation between the far-right and homophobia.”
Fair enough. Now we have more explanations applying to different cases.
@Hashtali
“A father who only has daughters will be concerned about them becoming lesbians for the same reasons you described above for the sons.”
Yes, but I once read a debate on a WN blog where they arrived at a consensus that they would prefer their daughter to have lesbian sex than to have sex with a “non-white” man, yet on the other hand would prefer their son to have sex with a “non-white” woman than to have gay sex. WN fathers definitely do not have the same standard for sons and daughters.
“Yes.”
OK, that makes sense, then.
“The Virile White Man”
You forgot to add the all-important “Alpha”. In fact, recently even “Alpha” is apparently not virile enough a term for them, and they have started referring to themselves as “Apex Predators”…..
@AS:
Wait a minute… isn’t this what WE fear? (As Gnostics, we also fear the male reproductive organ, of course.)
I don’t ‘fear’ either, and neither hold any power over me. Perhaps repulsed occasionally, but even that is not a constant. Nor do I spend excessive amounts thinking about them, which cannot not be said for most WN’s.
How about female WNs, according to your theory?
I think most of them are racists who ‘go along to get along’ to be honest. Sinead McCartney or whatever her name is would be an example of this.
“I would disagree here. We just need take one look at the ‘misadventures’ of the likes of Andrew Anglin into the ‘Asian’ dating scene to realize that Anglin obviously cannot entirely believe half the nonsense he professes”
Although not applicable to Anglin, many people who promote, well, “nice guy ‘soft’ racism”, for lack of a better term, seem to tolerate people of “East Asian” ethnicity. This is especially prevalent in HBD circles where people jack off about IQ scores-WNs must admit their IQs are inferior to “Asians,” but it’s ok since “whites” have bigger genitals! (This is known as J. Philippe Rushton’s ‘Goldilocks theory’)..
I guess many WNs are willing to overlook Anglin’s dating preferences because “Asian fetishism” is rampant in the porn-laden circles where memes such as making fun of “cuckholdry” (a porn category only “betas” would like, or something) originated. (Also note how Anglin and other ‘alt-right’ sites use tons of memes and other things to appeal to this demographic).
Perhaps the idea that “Asians” (the Japanese especially) have a well-functioning “traditional” society free of the “degeneracy” making the West weak, in part comes from this fetishism.
On the less crude side, you have people like Derbyshire (who has an “Asian” wife), who says “Asians” are ok since they are able to assimilate into society (read: Western Civilization)-unlike those pesky “blacks” who ‘biologically incapable’ of assimilating, or something…
“I believe that because most “white nationalists” groups are filled with weak spirited individuals that are fearful of being dominated by ‘others’, thus they have drawn the conclusion that their only hope to prevent this is to dominate the ‘other’ first.”
They’re compensating for something, to use a phrase they’d be familiar with.
By the way, I recently ran across an analysis very similar to yours, but specifically about the HBD movement (written on a non-racist manosphere blog):
“If you’ve spent any time reading men’s blogs, I’m sure by now you’ve come across the rantings of a subsection of the manosphere who believe in something called human biodiversity, or HBD for short. The believers in this pseudoscience cult like to call themselves “race realists.” They fixate on spreading the gospel of how non-Asian minorities are inherently genetically inferior to whites in terms of intelligence, and that this intelligence gap can never be bridged regardless of what political actions are taken by government or how much hard work is done by these groups. The most accurate way to describe HBD/”race realism” is as a narcissistic cult/support group for shame-filled white people who have trouble reconciling the grandiose self-image they grew up with against the increasingly mundane reality they are faced with as adults.
The first thing to understand if you want to figure out the rituals and mindsets involved in “race realism” is to understand shame and narcissism and how they work. The main motivating force behind narcissism is shame, which is a concept very different than guilt, although the two are often confused.
Shame, which is more toxic and primitive, is when you think there is something wrong with what you are. Guilt, which is healthier and more mature, is when you think there is something wrong with what you’re doing.
…
narcissists look at negative evidence against their grandiosity and look at it is a call to repair their narcissistic self-image with defense mechanisms, in this case self-serving rationalization.
instead of trying to work on his depression and maladjustment, which would require actual actions and challenging work, which is how a guilt-based person thinks, Derb turns it into a problem of identity, which is how a shame-based person thinks, and tries to reframe depressed makadjusted person into a positive identity that indicates superiority, so that now he doesnt actually have to take action or admit imperfection.”
http://nexxtlevelup.com/everything-else/the-truth-behind-the-hbd-cult-prt-1/
(By the way, ever notice how many WNs rant about “Christian guilt culture” making Westerners ‘weak and degenerate’?)
-
“Wait a minute… isn’t this what WE fear? (As Gnostics, we also fear the male reproductive organ, of course.)”
If you look at it from a shame vs guilt perspective (as outlined in the quote above), there is a clear difference. WNs have shame. They fear there is something defective with themselves for falling under the female’s power; perhaps they feel it is “unnatural” for strong, domineering alphas to have such a fatal weaknes.
Gnostics, on the other hand, feel guilt for letting such a primitive and so purely natural urge take control over them.
@JJ:
Excellent. Thanks.
Derb turns it into a problem of identity, which is how a shame-based person thinks, and tries to reframe depressed makadjusted person into a positive identity that indicates superiority, so that now he doesnt actually have to take action or admit imperfection.
Interesting to note here also would be that in the Cathar world view only women are capable of perfection.
Gnostics, on the other hand, feel guilt for letting such a primitive and so purely natural urge take control over them.
Great point!
*Or; already perfect. (Perfecti)
@JJ
“Although not applicable to Anglin, many people who promote, well, “nice guy ‘soft’ racism”, for lack of a better term, seem to tolerate people of “East Asian” ethnicity. This is especially prevalent in HBD circles where people jack off about IQ scores–WNs must admit their IQs are inferior to “Asians,” but it’s ok since “whites” have bigger genitals! (This is known as J. Philippe Rushton’s ‘Goldilocks theory’)..”
Either that, or they convince themselves that “Asians” only score higher on IQ tests by cheating…. And of course examiners help them cheat because the system has been infiltrated by “anti-Whites” since the 1960s….. Then you try asking them whether by the same reasoning we should be sceptical of all colonial era sources asserting “non-white” inferiority because back then the system was colonialist, and they will call YOU “anti-White” and then delete your comments.
“On the less crude side, you have people like Derbyshire (who has an “Asian” wife), who says “Asians” are ok since they are able to assimilate into society (read: Western Civilization)–unlike those pesky “blacks” who ‘biologically incapable’ of assimilating, or something…”
This is actually the very thing I am worried about:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asian_space_race
Western civilization will continue to be a problem long after “whiteness” has disappeared. Anyone who thinks the mere end of “whiteness” is the end of Western civilization grossly underestimates the danger we are in…..
“Shame, which is more toxic and primitive, is when you think there is something wrong with what you are. Guilt, which is healthier and more mature, is when you think there is something wrong with what you’re doing.”
This blogger is not a True Leftist despite being non-racist (how much can we expect from manosphere bloggers anyway?). Guilt comes from memory of Original Nobility, not from maturity. Guilt comes from failing in one’s duties. Shame comes from failing in one’s responsibilities. Rightists have no guilt, only shame, because they not dutiful, but rather responsibile. It is their maturity which has replaced duty with responsibility in their minds.
(Right-wing ideologies, in contrast, believe merely in responsibilities, which are not duties, since responsibilities are owed to predecessors who handed down power to oneself and to heirs to whom one’s predecessors expected one to hand down power in turn, whereas duties are owed to those subject to the effects of one’s power. For example, rightists talk about their responsibility to keep lands (Israel, America, etc.) which their ancestors conquered and from which they drove out the existing inhabitants in favour of their own progeny, whereas we talk about our duty to enable the homecoming of the displaced.)
http://aryanism.net/politics/foundations-of-the-true-left/
The problem with False Leftists is that they are unwilling to admit that rightists are more responsible people than themselves, because False Leftists themselves believe responsibility is good. We, on the other hand, have no problem with saying that rightists are infinitely more responsible people than ourselves, because we have already declared that responsibility is bad. Responsibility is what makes tradition sustainable, FFS! How can it possibly be good?!
“(By the way, ever notice how many WNs rant about “Christian guilt culture” making Westerners ‘weak and degenerate’?)”
All the time!
“The most accurate way to describe HBD/”race realism” is as a narcissistic cult/support group for shame-filled white people who have trouble reconciling the grandiose self-image they grew up with against the increasingly mundane reality they are faced with as adults.”
Narcissism is a good thing (as I previously explained going back to the Narcissus myth itself)! Truly superior people should hold a lifelong confidence in their own superiority. The problems with HBD are that it uses wrong parameters of superiority and wrong categorizations of people.
“Gnostics, on the other hand, feel guilt for letting such a primitive and so purely natural urge take control over them.”
That’s not exactly what I meant. I was referring to actual fear. (I think NS misunderstood me too.) It is this very fear that motivtates us as National Socialists to put the state in control of reproduction, in the same way that fear of (non-Islamic) banking motivates us to put the state in control of currency.
@NS
“in the Cathar world view only women are capable of perfection.”
“*Or; already perfect. (Perfecti)”
?????????????????????
@AS
“Yes, but I once read a debate on a WN blog where they arrived at a consensus that they would prefer their daughter to have lesbian sex than to have sex with a “non-white” man, yet on the other hand would prefer their son to have sex with a “non-white” woman than to have gay sex. WN fathers definitely do not have the same standard for sons and daughters.”
I think this has more to do with greater cultural emphasis (even outside WN groups) on preserving female purity for a mate - hence traditional stigmas on losing virginity prior to marriage. A woman, in the WNs’ view, would be more corrupted by a “non-white” man than by a “white” woman. Men, in contrast, are lauded for their “conquests”, and what better conquest is there for a tribalist than to conquer “another’s” women? (“The greatest happiness is to vanquish your enemies, to chase them before you, to rob them of their wealth, to see those dear to them bathed in tears, to clasp to your bosom their wives and daughters .” - Genghis Khan)
“Apex Predators”
Oh my God! Hahaha! You’ve got to show me one of them claim to be “Apex Predators”! I’m not finding this one hard to believe - after all, we’re talking about WNs - but I still want to see it with my own eyes.
@NW
“I think most of them are racists who ‘go along to get along’ to be honest.”
If we weren’t talking about WNs, this would be insulting; but in this case I think it’s generally a dangerous underestimation, one which also gives too much credit to WN male prowess. I think a bigger factor is a maternal drive to protect children and the home, in this case from “non-white” predators. (Of course, I don’t think this fits in with your earlier theory of WNs fearing “the” female reproductive organ.)
Perhaps a good way to observe the differences between male and female WNs is to study a female-led organization like Front National and compare it to most other far-right groups, which are generally male-led.
@Hashtali:
…but in this case I think it’s generally a dangerous underestimation, one which also gives too much credit to WN male prowess.
Good point. You’re right of course.
Here’s a discussion between WN males and a WN woman. Pulled it off of Scott Roberts Youtube channel, interesting, if you can stomach it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iBVxh3ns9E&oref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3D3iBVxh3ns9E&has_verified=1
@AS:
My mistake, and I should have worded that better.
Catharism has been seen as giving women the greatest opportunities for independent action since women were found as being believers as well as Perfecti, who were able to administer the sacrament of the consolamentum.[44] The Cathars believed that one would be repeatedly reincarnated until one commits to the self-denial of the material world, which meant that a man could be reincarnated as a woman and vice versa, thereby rendering gender completely meaningless.[45] The spirit was of utmost importance to the Cathars and was described as being immaterial and sexless.[45] Because of this belief, the Cathars saw women equally capable of being spiritual leaders, which undermined the very concept of gender as held by the Catholic Church and did not go unnoticed.[46]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catharism
In summary, neither the propaganda of the Roman Church nor the rosy picture of the Cathar apologists is right, but both are near the truth, which is that women treated much more like the equals of men than they were in the Medieval Church, and than they are in the modern Roman Church. It is possible that the Cathars treated women in the same way that the earlist Gnostic Christians had treated women - initially unaware of St Paul because they predated him, and later ignoring his innovative and offensive opinions.
http://www.cathar.info/cathar_catholic.htm#equality
@Hasht5ali:
Hoping to get to your emails later tonight, tomorrow at the latest. Haven’t forgotten about them.
@NS
“Here’s a discussion between WN males and a WN woman. Pulled it off of Scott Roberts Youtube channel, interesting, if you can stomach it.”
Is there a particular part of the video that got your attention? It’s long and rambling, and the WN males are disagreeing with each other.
“Hoping to get to your emails later tonight, tomorrow at the latest. Haven’t forgotten about them.”
I’m glad to hear it. (AS, I’m working on yours too.)
@Hashtali
“Oh my God! Hahaha! You’ve got to show me one of them claim to be “Apex Predators”!”
It was from a while back, so I don’t have a link. Here is a similar sentiment, though:
http://bbs.dailystormer.com/uploads/default/original/3X/f/b/fbea7925ff8c2d522896a69090a30361999ad6c7.jpg
@Hashtali
Capped it!
http://aryanism.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/apex.jpg
LOL! Unfortunately, Homo Apex-Predatorius hunts more than it sleeps and rests, otherwise the last few centuries of the West would not have happened….