It isn’t my intention to try to speak for Oregoncoug, but rather to give my understanding of his most recent post and previous attitudes regarding the subject of religion and the state.
OC’s belief in continuity of the tradition of a unified Europe (and perhaps beyond) only seemingly conflicts with AS’s more revolutionary and universalist – indeed more Aryan – vision of the future. I think that the main differentiation to be made is that of time frame. I would see OC’s vision as more suitable for immediate implementation, whereas AS’s is more utopian. To avoid confusion, it would perhaps be best to link the modern compromises with its significance in attaining the long-term aims of Aryanism.
The state is by no means the abode of the elite. The elite merely preside over it. The state must embody the masses for it to be popular, which is a requirement of an Aryanist State. While the elite must be constantly leading the masses closer towards Arya, it must do so at a comfortable pace. This means that there is an important place for tradition in a modern manifestation of an Aryanist State. This is what I believe OC may mean when he reference’s Casel’s notion that Christianity is the fulfilment of Greco-Roman antiquity.
The stale Roman pantheon was replaced by the ascendant Christian cult. This “replacement” should be seen more as a “progression”, as Christianity gave new life to Rome to overcome barbarity and unite all nations under a universalist Empire. Indeed, Hitler dismissed those petty nationalists who despised Charlemagne for the slaughter of members of their race; instead acknowledging his ‘Westernisation’ of Germany.
The strength of the Third Reich lay in part in its “rootedness”. The West today can be pulled in opposite directions with ease after every election, as it lacks these roots which would give it the fortitude to at least resist degeneration. This rootedness was made possible by the Reich’s absorption of nationalism – amongst other non-Aryan sentiments and attitudes – into its state cult. Nationalism was impossible to reject in Germany during the 1920s-30s. While nationalism is largely dead in the West, it has been replaced by other popular sentiments; all of which will require the same inclusion (at least superficially) into state ideology and religion.
Interestingly, the new film “Inception” explains the need for tradition (albeit in a different context) in popular government. People cannot be told new ideas. They must be suggested to them subtly, so that their adoption (or even their formulation) is perceived to have come from that individual.
Therefore, it is most important that Arya be the ideal which dominates matters of state and the ambitions of the elite. However, the state cult for the masses must – if it is to be populist – combine Aryanism with an ever-Aryanising tradition.
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Extremely apt, Elysium. I imagine that we might say that AS is “all brain” and I am “all heart” whereas what is truly needed is somewhere in between in the “throat chakra” region. I’m much the oldest man here so it’s not so surprising I seem to have more emotional attachment to our dead. I am getting my odd notions from Esoteric Hitlerism, not from “White nationalism.” As always, AS is remarkably insightful concerning the radical decline in everything to do with the nation-state. That does, however, imply a corresponding rise in the centrality of religion (and of socialist economic justice for the working-class!). I think the balance required in this era is abundantly available for us in the pages of Mein Kamph, which contain much to challenge and shake up every one of us, including myself.
“While Nationalism is largely dead in the West” – Elysium
I just wrote an article on this very death of nationalism;
http://delendaestziobot.wordpress.com/
The Roman pantheon was revitalized by the Universal (Catholic) Church and the Papacy, and yes we can call it “progression”. But it was very different to the Catholic Church today and I think that needs to be emphasized, so it would be a more traditionalist Universal Church that Aryanists would appeal to.
So the Universal Church would be the fulfilment or natural progression of Roman-Greco antiquity, but not Christianity as we know it today? I feel many might miss this detail.
The traditionalists would claim that the Reformation was the shipwreck, we only have to look at Evangelical Baptist Christianty the world over today to realise that there is a very strong case against the Reformation, but again the shipwreck was not so sudden, the decline of the Universal Church and the Papacy had been in full swing for 100 years before Luther’s Protest, im not sure it was an internal decay, there were outside political developments after the Black Death, 150 years before the Reformation, and then the Papal Schism, and then the growth Nationalities after that, which then obscured the very essence of universality of the Catholic Church.
Of course the Catholic Church has since revived itself several times but not for the better, it just falls further and further into the depths of Judaism, and ‘Christianity’, well that just appears now as Messianic Judaism. At least that is how it seems to me.
Delendaestziobot makes an important connection. Nationalism is a glossy form of tribalism. It only emerged alongside Protestantism and the desire for kings to gain ‘religious sovereignty’. It is interesting to note that the Catholic/Protestant barrier has been breaking down over past decades; coinciding with the decline of Nationalism as a motivator of Western governments (which began a more rapid decline following the end of the Cold War). The Pope’s visit and reception in Britain demonstrates both the bridging of Christian division and the death of nationalism – both desirable trends.
Kamerad Delendaestziobot,
Your questions are extremely pertinent. History does matter! The Romanity and Hellenism of which the Universal Church must be the fulfillment can only be found, for our European and American Western Aryans, within our Aryan heritage of classicism and classical romanticism. This is the core civilization of the historical European farmer-warriors including peasants, aristocrats and clergy, or in other words, of our noble ancestors and their priests.
Men will miss this detail for as long as they refuse to focus on NOBILITY. As soon as they begin to study and practice nobility they will quickly come to understand what we mean by our Universal Church. Until they do so they will never understand it. This noble fulfillment is not altogether “natural,” but requires a radical renewal that is made possible by an introduction of LUCIFER as the “new name” of Jesus Christ.
“Lucifer” is a most traditional Catholic name, as attested by St. Lucifer and the singular emphasis on it in Revelation 2:28 and 22:16. This latter reference serves as the Grand Finale to the entire Apocalypse of John! Such a recognition of Christ as Lucifer is not, however, compatible with Catholic Traditionalism because that latter judaic religion is democratic, ignoble and was officially declared by the Universal Church to be a heresy even back in the Nineteenth Century. That Yahwist error is merely a democratic sociology of the dead.
The recent mystical Marian Death of the Church has indeed been a long time in coming. I would trace its beginnings back to the impact on the West by the general collapse of the Eastern World when the Mongol Empire fell apart back around 1300. That marked another great crisis of globalization in many ways comparable to the present one, except that now it is the West that has imploded. That other world crisis forged three distinct strands within the Universal Church: the Guelphs/Gallicans, the Ultra-montanes or Papal Party and the Ghibellines or Emperor’s Men. (We are heirs to the latter.) Around 1300 the Guelphs/Gallicans took over the Universal Church by kidnapping the Popes in the famous “Bablylonian Captivity” in Avignon, France from 1305-1377 followed by the consequent Great Schism from 1378-1417. That is the actual source of “nationalism” in the Western World.
The Ghibelline King Henry V of England crushed the main Guelph/Gallican Army at the Battle of Agincourt in 1416, after which Gallicanism greatly weakened and the Papacy won its independence from France. The aristocrats who had used Gallicanism to maximize their power needed a new power tool and, with the rise of the Turks keeping the Emperors preoccupied, found the Reformation that began in 1517 to be much to their liking.
The Universal Church enjoyed many great military victories over the Protestants so that the last independent Protestant prince, King Charles XII of Sweden, died in 1719, dead by Catholic ammo. The Papacy, however, was a sickly institution because it lacked the temporal power that might correspond to its responsibilities. Nietzsche often lamented that Caesare Borgia (Pope Alexander Borgia’s legitimate son) had failed to become the Fuhrer of Italy he had been born to be! Instead, when Ghibelline King Henry IV of France attempted to convert the Protestants, a lesser Pope promptly had the Jesuits murder him. The Papacy preferred the Mimimum Program of King Louis XIV: to let the Protestants stagnate in their northern fogs as defeated dependents of an Almighty Papal Bureaucracy. Likewise the Papacy was careful to make sure China, Africa and other lands would not be converted. The Universal Church was by then showing some very judaic Old Testament tendencies to selfish tribalism.
With the Catholic defeat of Protestant independence it should be no surprise that Gallicanism came roaring back. It was only from about 1740 that, thanks to Gallican kings, Latin finally BEGAN to lose its dominant position over the vernacular languages. In the 18th Century the Universal Church defeated Islam and the latter lost its independence with the final crushing of the Islamic Armies in 1792 by Catholics and their Russian proteges. Such vast vistas then opened up for the Universal Church that the envious Jews who ran the Turkish Empire and their Gallican allies, with eager assistance from the Jews of Paris, decided to fund the Freemasons and their French Revolution, with results you no doubt know. Through the 18th Century the Ghibelline Catholics were busy defeating Islam and Jacobins.
The Gallican Catholics were the main force behind the rise of nationalism in the 19th Century. The Papacy continued its Ultra-montane Minimum Program while the Ghibellines rose through the Napoleanic Legend and on into the development of Ariosophia by Richard Wagner and Madame Blavatsky later in the century. Wagner was instrumental in helping to defeat the Gallicans forever by 1890. The dawn of Lucifer was approaching!
It was still true, as the Fuhrer stated in Mein Kamph about the Universal Church in 1925: “…we shall have to admit that the proportion of good to bad is more favorable here than anywhere else.” The Fuhrer was NEVER one to praise anything lightly.
Thanks to the Axis Powers the Universal Church rose to moral and spiritual heights previously unsuspected in the human race. In historical terms, the triumphs of the Third Reich were triumphs of the Ghibelline Universal Church. The true shipwreck occurred in the Ragnorok of 1945. Since then the Universal Church and Western Aryan Folk have only known one tragedy after another as they have passed through an Age of Lead that has marked the End of Kali Yuga.
The Russians murdered Pope Pius XII along with his protégé President Kennedy and the Americans murdered Pope John Paul I along with most everyone else who gets in the way of Yisrael. At least the Fuhrer’s heir, the Ghibelline Catholic Otto Skorzeny, and Skorzeny’s loyal Protestant ally President Ford did what they could!
The Good News is that the EFFECTIVE judaizing of the Universal Church only really started in the 1960s and 70s. The Bad News is that since then the decline has been straight downwards into the Pit. Now there is truly nowhere to go but up…
Today the old tribal nationalism is basically only a joke, a bad joke. The Gallicanism and Jacobinism that once supported it are dead and gone. Even their distant echoes have vanished into nothingness. Genuine religious sectarianism has gone with it. What remains is the ashes of Soviet Bolshevism and, in historical perspective, that too is blowing away in the winds of time more and more every day. Spiritually speaking, Arya has awakened.
Kamerad Elysium,
The problem is that both Pope Benedict and the Queen have themselves become judaized relics of a bygone age. They are almost the last Goy champions of Yahwist sectarianism, tribal nationalism and Shylock capitalism left standing, but not for long.
Apres eux, nous.
Right, I think I got all that, so the Universal Church of Europe and the Papacy bound with the Holy Roman Empire inherited Roman-Greco Antiquity, therefore that would be our Tradition. Seeming that Protest Reformation stood vehemently opposed to this tradition, than we today would be opposed to Protestantism? Do we agree to this? Or am I being too decisive?
I mean certainly we have to reject Protestant doctrine, the doctrine that the printed word is the highest form of God? Which reminds me of Fiat $’s in a way, the value is only the paper its printed on eventually and is subject to change at any time. Surely this doctrine comes from the City of Worms…That human nature is totally corrupted by ‘original sin’, man deprived of free will, faith alone can work justification, dismissal of heirachy and traditional priesthood, avail the soul nothing, no training required for religious instruction, no visible Church, destruction of the Church in Statehood, all men can work out their own salvation independently by faith alone, i.e. get something for nothing. I cannot see anything in these doctrines that I find appealing.
The true shipwreck was most definitely 1945, for generations after Aryan Folk have been locked in an cast-iron coffin and thrown into the deepest ocean.
Kamerad Delendaestziobot,
I think your latest comment is very true. It’s just that we have to do our best to relate to our objective reality that isn’t as clean cut as one might prefer. Although before the 1960s the Universal Church was quite good at combatting judaizers within her own membership, she has, since about 1650, not been truly serious about helping those outside her ranks. That probably had more to do with some Catholic monarchs than with priests, so I’m not suggesting any simple negativism against clergy or monarchs. Even King Louis XIV of France, the Sun King, who was the man most to blame for this, was also a great Aryan with many excellent qualities alongside his faults.
What I’m getting at here is that, in our time, judaizing Protestantism, Boromir Paganism and the Universal Church are so mixed together that it isn’t altogether possible to separate the three. In any practical sense, the best Protestants (and Pagans) have actually been “marginal” Catholics for centuries now: Leibnitz, Frederick the Great, George Washington, George III, Faraday, John Ruskin, Lord Tennyson, T. S. Eliot, Yeats… The list is long. The greatest Catholics of the past fifty years were probably Ezra Pound and Miguel Serrano, in spite of some confusing appearances. In practical terms, nowadays Catholics, Protestants and Pagans alike have mostly gone traitor, and fallen for the same judaic false religion of Yahwism. “They are all Bolsheviks now.”
“Original Nobility” is not a formal expression of Catholic doctrine, BUT it is, in humble fact, a perfectly accurate description of what the historic teaching of the Universal Church has actually always been. Because BOTH moral good and evil are in large measure hereditary (although more via language than only via genetics) the moral inequality between human populations is stunningly vast. Hence ARYANS do enjoy a radical moral superiority over the rest of humanity, BUT we must prove it by our actions too. Aryans are born noble, but the citizenship in Arya will nevertheless have to be EARNED through initiation, like in ancient Rome. We must take for granted that all Kameraden are predestined to Glory, yet we must never allow Pharisee self-satisfaction in ourselves!
Which is to say: We must love Lucifer greatly without daring to take him/Him for granted. His generosity knows no bounds, but we should always remember he is, after all, LUCIFER, a God-man like ourselves. He fights alongside us and covers our backs yet he does not fight our Kamph for us. If, which can NEVER be, an Aryan should think himself “too good to fight,” Lucifer would throw him overboard with the trash just like any other worthless goyim.
Our noble Christianity has always been uniquely “new.” Newness is a key characteristic of our ancestral faith. Lucifer is a relentless active fighter, especially in his dawnlit dreams! To say that Our Lord is truly Lucifer, the Bright Star of Morning, is both radically new and completely traditional. (Not “traditionalist,” which is actually a Protestant error.)
We are in a spiritual condition that does resemble the situation when Lucifer was on earth and did Great Deeds that led to the Destruction of Jerusalem and Yahweh’s Temple there. The “mixing” in the spiritual life of our Folk means we also live in another Age of Great Deeds. Our actions will likewise inevitably lead to the Destruction of the Judenstaadt together with the existing Papacy and British Monarchy that are the shameless Gentile reflections of that vampire rabbinate in Jerusalem, the ACTUAL Eye of Sauron, the Dark Lord of this hellish End of Kali Yuga.
HEIL HITLER
Your response is much appreciated Learned Sir Oregoncoug.
HEIL HITLER